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Lansbury Park community pulls together to demand centre renovation

Published in News at 10:33, Tuesday March 10th, 2015. Last updated at 10:36, Tuesday March 10th, 2015

By Gareth Hill

 

COMMUNITY: Residents and councillors outside the derelict community centre in Lansbury Park

COMMUNITY: Residents and councillors outside the derelict community centre in Lansbury Park

Residents have joined with councillors to call on Caerphilly County Borough Council to renovate a disused community centre.

Lansbury Park, in Caerphilly town, is in the St James ward, which last year was named as the most deprived area in Wales.

Residents claim that despite a good community spirit, there are no facilities in safe distance for youngsters and older people on the estate.

St James councillor Elaine Forehead launched a petition calling on the council to regenerate the derelict former community centre on Graham Court on the Caerphilly town housing estate.

She was joined by residents to petition in the area, who said they used the community centre while growing up for discos, jazz band practice, judo and other community activities.

They also lamented the loss of activities for older people and said there used to be coffee mornings and bingo events at the community centre.

Diane Wiegold, 37, said: “We used to have carnivals based here and all the streets would compete against each other but there’s no community anymore.

“People here are nice people but there’s just no facilities. It’s just a waste of a building.”

Jonathan Adler, 34, said: “I started judo there and there were discos every weekend and coffee mornings for the pensioners.

“They say it’s a bad estate, it’s always negative, but when we want to do something positive we don’t get any support.”

Cllr Forehead is confident the community and council can work together to find a new use for the building.

She said: “I’m absolutely amazed and I’m so proud of everyone here. I’m sure we’ll fight hard enough to get it done.”

Cllr Christine Forehead said she hoped the centre could be used for services such as a nappy exchange service.

She said: “You go to the supermarket and see offers for packs of 18 nappies. People around here can’t afford to buy that many at a time but could afford to pick up three or four from an exchange.”

Labour councillor Gez Kirby was also out with residents supporting the call for action.

He said: “This is the area that’s the most deprived area in all of Wales, but you can see there’s community spirit here and they need a centre to represent that.”

The petition is due to be handed into a meeting of full council by residents and Cllr Elaine Forehead tonight, March 10.

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  • Trefor Bond

    Of Course this hall has to be revitalised and maintained for the benefit of the Community.

    The Caerphilly Aged Poeples Welfare Committee, a group of Trustees, built and operate the Welfare Hall in Park Lane Caerphilly, and, have done so, voluntarily, for 61 years.

    As a result all community groups in the town, and all the pensioner groups have FREE use of this hall for their activities, the Caerphilly Council have to pay nothing from the public purse ( Ratepayers Money) to run this community facility, maintain the building, or pay the caretaking and cleaning costs, they do, however, through local Councillors of the current caerphilly Council administration, appear to want to bring this FREE COMMUNITY FACILITY TO AN END, they have never spent a penny on it, and the Trustees have never asked them too.

    The last Plaid Cymru Caerphilly Council took decisions which SECURED this hall in Park Lane for the continued benefit of the people of Caerphilly, but, its continued facility to the pensioners of the town, and any other community group who wants to use it.

    The Trustees of the ParcLane Hall have vowed to ensure that this facility is preserved for the free use of all and any community groups who use it and want to use it FREE any charges.

    God luck to Councillor Forehead and her supporters in her fight to regain the community facility in her ward. She hold a very influencial position at the Caerphilly cabinet Table and as a result is at the top of those elected representatives being asked to do what she wants.

    • Elaine Forehead

      Sorry Trefor but I am a back bencher and no more influential than any other council member.

      • Trefor Bond

        Elaine, Good luck with this project, it should of course be a no brainer for the benefit of the community. But, you must have realised I has made just a little error, I was , of course, refering to the esteem, Councillor Mrs Christine Forehead, who can be seen in the reports photograph, Who, as you know is a very senior and well respected Councillor in your ward, she does, as you know, sit in the Cabinet, and any sucess to this project would need the backing of the Caerphilly Council Cabinet?.Thats the point I was making.

        Councillor Barbara Jones is of course another very very senior Councillor, in the Council, representing your ward, and as DEPUTY LEADER OF THE COUNCIL, sitting at the top table, should also heavily influence the sucess of your aims for the centre

  • Trefor Bond

    Of Course this hall has to be revitalised and maintained for the benefit of the Community.

    The Caerphilly Aged Poeples Welfare Committee, a group of Trustees, built and operate the Welfare Hall in Park Lane Caerphilly, and, have done so, voluntarily, for 61 years.

    As a result all community groups in the town, and all the pensioner groups have FREE use of this hall for their activities, the Caerphilly Council have to pay nothing from the public purse ( Ratepayers Money) to run this community facility, maintain the building, or pay the caretaking and cleaning costs, they do, however, through local Councillors of the current caerphilly Council administration, appear to want to bring this FREE COMMUNITY FACILITY TO AN END, they have never spent a penny on it, and the Trustees have never asked them too.

    The last Plaid Cymru Caerphilly Council took decisions which SECURED this hall in Park Lane for the continued benefit of the people of Caerphilly, but, its continued facility to the pensioners of the town, and any other community group who wants to use it, appears from correpondence I have seen from Officers of Caerphilly council is now under threat to its current Free status facility, and its existance as a Community facility. The Councils only role in respect to this hall is that they administer the Charitable land on which the hall sits, and, even though the last Plaid Cymru Council, four years ago, ageed the terms to coninue the ground lease, the current Labour council failed to enact those decisions, as a result the hall is in danger.

    The Trustees of the Parc Lane Hall have vowed to ensure that this facility is preserved for the free use of all and any community groups who use it and want to use it FREE of any charges.

    Good luck to Councillor Forehead and her supporters in her fight to regain the community facility in her ward. She hold a very influencial position at the Caerphilly cabinet Table and as a result is at the top of those elected representatives being asked to do what she wants.

    • Elaine Forehead

      Sorry Trefor but I am a back bencher and no more influential than any other council member.

      • Trefor Bond

        Elaine, Good luck with this project, it should of course be a no brainer for the benefit of the community. But, you must have realised I had made just a little error, I was , of course, refering to the esteem, Councillor Mrs Christine Forehead, who can be seen in the reports photograph, Who, as you know is a very senior and well respected Councillor in your ward, she does, as you know, sit in the Cabinet, and any sucess to this project would need the backing of the Caerphilly Council Cabinet?.Thats the point I was making.

        Councillor Barbara Jones is of course another very very senior Councillor, in the Council, representing your ward, and as DEPUTY LEADER OF THE COUNCIL, sitting at the top table, should also heavily influence the sucess of your aims for the centre

  • Dean Cooperfield-West

    The building should be knocked down so a property developer can build a house on it.

    Community centers are not needed in today’s world where hard work, wealth accumulation, and social media all fulfill the roles of these outdated community center concepts.

    • Cllr Richard Williams

      I think you may be trying to be a troll here Dean. Nobody is daft enough to believe wealth accumulation and social media can replace healthy, face to face, interaction between people. It is also a little difficult to dance or practise martial arts over the internet.

      • Dean Cooperfield-West

        Not at all! Look at the middle class to upper class villages and estates all around Britain. For example, Lee, in Buckinghamshire, has a population of just under 700 people but it is one of the most community spirited places you will ever go to. Yet it has no community centre. Its spirit is built up around wealth, happiness and traditional values. The community spirit is reinforced with local gatherings around the village green in the summer, neighbours often holding large BBQ’s, and people regularly stopping for a chat outside the local bakery. This is how community spirit forms. Community spirit needs a group of people with a cultural link, something in common, and the desire to forge new relations regardless of council-funded facilities.

        Another example is working class Britain during WWII. Local communities were as strong as they could be but it was not down to community centres. People had a common cause; winning the war. They came together in tough circumstances. Food was shared out, garden space was shared, women started domestic businesses, local people took over patrols, and local areas were managed not by councils but by an autonomous group of people who came together without any encouragement.

        I have a community spirit with the people I live by, do we attend a community centre? No! There is not one nearby. Do we need one? No! We chat in the street when one of us is washing the car (we often end up helping each other out), we invited each other around for tea, we have joint parties, we have joint BBQ’s, we lend each other gardening tools, and we even sometimes agree to meet up at the pub.

        Anyone believing a community centre will foster a community spirit is, quite frankly, delusional as a community spirit starts on the garden fence. A community centre will contribute nothing to the community spirit of the people nor will it contribute to their happiness, hence it is a waste of money.

        Community spirit is from the circumstances at the time. If this recent recession did not forge the community spirit, a community centre will certainly not!

        • Cllr Richard Williams

          Dean, the exemplorary village you mention has a parish hall, scout hut and on its website offers these as being ideal for the use of children and adults, for various activities; crockery available too!

          Chatting whilst washing the car is not a substitute for people gathering and working together to pursue community interests. These could be dancing, evening classes, toddlers groups, coffee mornings, acts of worship, martial arts, I could go on. To do this the community needs a hall, just like the village of Lee. I do agree that this has nothing to do with council funding, the Neuadd Y Parc hall in Caerffili does okay without public money.

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            1.8 miles away you have Bedwas and Trethomas Community Hall which they can use for coffee mornings and everything else they want to do. There is still no need to give every community a hall since some of the nicest communities around do not have one but manage fine.

            There may be uses for a hall; I will concede that. However, the ‘community spirit’ nonsense given has been proven to be false by the examples of communities who do not have a hall but still manage to get along nicely with a community spirit e.g. Castle View, Glenfields, and Hendredenny do not have halls but are nicer communities.

          • Michelle

            Bigots! The purpose is to give children something to do. Its a fact that Lansbury Park is the most deprived area in Wales and policy frame work suggests working on making the centre a vibrant one! With only a housing office and a shop, how would you suggest this is vibrant! Also there is research that shows that children from disadvantaged backgrounds suffer inequalities, read the marmot review educate yourself or even The spirit level- Why equality is better for everyone……Give these children a chance! Wake up to reality, poverty is a big issue and the community is willing to put in as much work as they can to make the community a better one. Its social stigma that brings communities down, stereotyping people of Lansbury park is not the way forward, community participation/engagement is. As for Bedwas and Trethomas they have green spaces with plenty of activities for children and youth of today. Lansbury is a densely populated area with hardly any green spaces and a high proportion of children and deprivation. IF ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR GRAIG Y RHACCA it’s good enough for the community of Lansbury and others in the same situation! Yes you have offended me a resident of Lansbury and someone who is working hard for a living and the community!

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            Fund it yourself, regardless of who it is for. Hold a fundraising charity event, bag pack, all chip in, do whatever but do not expect the taxpayers to fund it for you.

            Equality does not come from local authorities handing out free money to people. Doing so is artificial wealth and unfair to those expected to slave away to help people who wasted their time in school. People in these impoverished estates can go to school, do a night class in something, gain qualifications and improve their living standards through a higher job. It’s called work! Get used to it!

          • Michelle

            Some people are born into poverty DEAN, do you understand, a vicious circle emerges and without help some people can not get out of that circle. You really have no idea! Come to our next meeting we will reason any course of action we are taking. Excuse me I have a degree in Environmental Health and Health and Safety, Diploma in Health and Social Care, Access to Biological Science- Distinction and G.C.S.E’s. why do you think I am so keen to help, because I care and every person born within the U.K should have the same chance as any other. Also because I have the common sense to try and solve a problem that could decline!

          • Trefor Bond

            The alarming fact is that to some degree this chap Dean, or what ever is real name is, is correct, only though so far that the only way the most poverty stricken area in the UK ,St James Ward, will move DOWN the poverty Table is by picking themselves up by their boot laces, it will not happen because individuals are parechuted into the estate, pontificating about what is best for the residents, and, “this is the `model` that we have to follow”, etc etc etc, That process has been followed year on year and really made negative impact, as a result the ward has gone from second to top in the poverty stakes.

            Councillor Elain Forehead and her suporters are on the right road, get the centre up and running, provide community facilities and events in and associated with it, ensure that youngsters are also represented on the management committee, and that facilities are created for them, “aimless youngsters do not break windows by throwing stones from inside”,. The new invigorated Centre will soon become a becon of what is positive in the heart of this community, and people will want to use, even, it could be suggested, Dean whatshisname and his like minded friends.

            Good Luck.

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            Congratulations! You are qualified to tell me about the dangers of using a ladder over 6ft, or using the same knife to prepare salad and raw chicken.

            Having a degree you should know how easy it is to focus at school, achieve good grades, and go to university as an investment in your future. Schooling is free, and university requires no upfront fees. A degree opens doors leading to more chances and, on average, a salary of £12000 high than non-degree possessing people. The people of Lansbury Park have access to a school and university. They can follow in your footsteps.

            If however, you are still a resident of Lansbury park by reasons other than choice (e.g. finances do not allow you to move), I question your degree’s use or your work ethic.

            The irony here is the residents of Lansbury Park are arguing for a community centre to meet the community’s needs. Yet, if the community was community oriented, and had demands regarding the centre, the centre would never have entered a state of disrepair.

          • Michelle

            Thats how much you know then, Environmental Health these days is more on the lines of regeneration, and yes I am still a resident of Lansbury because I choose to be! I don’t need an expensive house, when the one I live in is perfectly fine and close enough for work for me! The council closed the centre because of Health and safety reasons but you already know that because you know everything. A Community Centre will give children a start in life they may not have had before, and it will be a resource centre for your information. A place for guidance training and for children to change their lifestyles and social behaviour. 6ft ladder haha think asbestos

          • Diane Wiegold

            I am also a resident of Lansbury park born and bred I’m also a full time student and believe it or not both myself and my husband work to bring our children up and both my parents worked too I was brought up to have respect for others less fortunate than myself unfortunately not all people are fortunate enough to be raised with golden spoons in their mouths like you obviously did don’t quite understand why people such as yourself are so negative there are some lovely hard working families in the Lansbury park area

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            From your comment I know you had children before returning to university, or while at university. It is irresponsible to have children when you were not in a financially sound position; especially when children cost on average £250,000 to raise over a lifetime. You and your partner should have put off children until you were both out of university with decent degrees and in a full time career with a stable income. When you are in this position you could move out of Landbury Park and into a more upmarket area.

            However, you chose to take the dumb option by having children before being financially sound, placing large amounts of financial pressure on yourself in the process. As a result, you are stuck in a poverty-stricken area.

        • Trefor Bond

          No big society for you then?.

  • Dean Cooperfield-West

    The building should be knocked down so a property developer can build a house on it.

    Community centers are not needed in today’s world where hard work, wealth accumulation, and social media all fulfill the roles of these outdated community center concepts.

    • Cllr Richard Williams

      I think you may be trying to be a troll here Dean. Nobody is daft enough to believe wealth accumulation and social media can replace healthy, face to face, interaction between people. It is also a little difficult to dance or practise martial arts over the internet.

      • Dean Cooperfield-West

        Not at all! Look at the middle class to upper class villages and estates all around Britain. For example, Lee, in Buckinghamshire, has a population of just under 700 people but it is one of the most community spirited places you will ever go to. Yet it has no community centre. Its spirit is built up around wealth, happiness and traditional values. The community spirit is reinforced with local gatherings around the village green in the summer, neighbours often holding large BBQ’s, and people regularly stopping for a chat outside the local bakery. This is how community spirit forms. Community spirit needs a group of people with a cultural link, something in common, and the desire to forge new relations regardless of council-funded facilities.

        Another example is working class Britain during WWII. Local communities were as strong as they could be but it was not down to community centres. People had a common cause; winning the war. They came together in tough circumstances. Food was shared out, garden space was shared, women started domestic businesses, local people took over patrols, and local areas were managed not by councils but by an autonomous group of people who came together without any encouragement.

        I have a community spirit with the people I live by, do we attend a community centre? No! There is not one nearby. Do we need one? No! We chat in the street when one of us is washing the car (we often end up helping each other out), we invited each other around for tea, we have joint parties, we have joint BBQ’s, we lend each other gardening tools, and we even sometimes agree to meet up at the pub.

        Anyone believing a community centre will foster a community spirit is, quite frankly, delusional as a community spirit starts on the garden fence. A community centre will contribute nothing to the community spirit of the people nor will it contribute to their happiness, hence it is a waste of money.

        Community spirit is from the circumstances at the time. If this recent recession did not forge the community spirit, a community centre will certainly not!

        • Cllr Richard Williams

          Dean, the exemplorary village you mention has a parish hall, scout hut and on its website offers these as being ideal for the use of children and adults, for various activities; crockery available too!

          Chatting whilst washing the car is not a substitute for people gathering and working together to pursue community interests. These could be dancing, evening classes, toddlers groups, coffee mornings, acts of worship, martial arts, I could go on. To do this the community needs a hall, just like the village of Lee. I do agree that this has nothing to do with council funding, the Neuadd Y Parc hall in Caerffili does okay without public money.

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            1.8 miles away you have Bedwas and Trethomas Community Hall which they can use for coffee mornings and everything else they want to do. There is still no need to give every community a hall since some of the nicest communities around do not have one but manage fine.

            There may be uses for a hall; I will concede that. However, the ‘community spirit’ nonsense given has been proven to be false by the examples of communities who do not have a hall but still manage to get along nicely with a community spirit e.g. Castle View, Glenfields, and Hendredenny do not have halls but are nicer communities.

          • Michelle

            Bigots! The purpose is to give children something to do. Its a fact that Lansbury Park is the most deprived area in Wales and policy frame work suggests working on making the centre a vibrant one! With only a housing office and a shop, how would you suggest this is vibrant! Also there is research that shows that children from disadvantaged backgrounds suffer inequalities, read the marmot review educate yourself or even The spirit level- Why equality is better for everyone……Give these children a chance! Wake up to reality, poverty is a big issue and the community is willing to put in as much work as they can to make the community a better one. Its social stigma that brings communities down, stereotyping people of Lansbury park is not the way forward, community participation/engagement is. As for Bedwas and Trethomas they have green spaces with plenty of activities for children and youth of today. Lansbury is a densely populated area with hardly any green spaces and a high proportion of children and deprivation. IF ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR GRAIG Y RHACCA it’s good enough for the community of Lansbury and others in the same situation! Yes you have offended me a resident of Lansbury and someone who is working hard for a living and the community!

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            Fund it yourself, regardless of who it is for. Hold a fundraising charity event, bag pack, all chip in, do whatever but do not expect the taxpayers to fund it for you.

            Equality does not come from local authorities handing out free money to people. Doing so is artificial wealth and unfair to those expected to slave away to help people who wasted their time in school. People in these impoverished estates can go to school, do a night class in something, gain qualifications and improve their living standards through a higher job. It’s called work! Get used to it!

          • Michelle

            Some people are born into poverty DEAN, do you understand, a vicious circle emerges and without help some people can not get out of that circle. You really have no idea! Come to our next meeting we will reason any course of action we are taking. Excuse me I have a degree in Environmental Health and Health and Safety, Diploma in Health and Social Care, Access to Biological Science- Distinction and G.C.S.E’s. why do you think I am so keen to help, because I care and every person born within the U.K should have the same chance as any other. Also because I have the common sense to try and solve a problem that could decline!

          • Trefor Bond

            The alarming fact is that to some degree this chap Dean, or what ever is real name is, is correct, only though so far that the only way the most poverty stricken area in the UK ,St James Ward, will move DOWN the poverty Table is by picking themselves up by their boot laces, it will not happen because individuals are parechuted into the estate, pontificating about what is best for the residents, and, “this is the `model` that we have to follow”, etc etc etc, That process has been followed year on year and really made negative impact, as a result the ward has gone from second to top in the poverty stakes.

            Councillor Elaine Forehead and her suporters are on the right road, get the centre up and running, provide community facilities and events in and associated with it, ensure that youngsters are also represented on the management committee, and that facilities are created for them, “aimless youngsters do not break windows by throwing stones from inside”,. The new invigorated Centre will soon become a becon of what is positive in the heart of this community, and people will want to use, even, it could be suggested, Dean whatshisname and his like minded friends.

            Good Luck.

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            Congratulations! You are qualified to tell me about the dangers of using a ladder over 6ft, or using the same knife to prepare salad and raw chicken.

            Having a degree you should know how easy it is to focus at school, achieve good grades, and go to university as an investment in your future. Schooling is free, and university requires no upfront fees. A degree opens doors leading to more chances and, on average, a salary of £12000 high than non-degree possessing people. The people of Lansbury Park have access to a school and university. They can follow in your footsteps.

            If however, you are still a resident of Lansbury park by reasons other than choice (e.g. finances do not allow you to move), I question your degree’s use or your work ethic.

            The irony here is the residents of Lansbury Park are arguing for a community centre to meet the community’s needs. Yet, if the community was community oriented, and had demands regarding the centre, the centre would never have entered a state of disrepair.

          • Michelle

            Thats how much you know then, Environmental Health these days is more on the lines of regeneration, and yes I am still a resident of Lansbury because I choose to be! I don’t need an expensive house, when the one I live in is perfectly fine and close enough for work for me! The council closed the centre because of Health and safety reasons but you already know that because you know everything. A Community Centre will give children a start in life they may not have had before, and it will be a resource centre for your information. A place for guidance training and for children to change their lifestyles and social behaviour. 6ft ladder haha think asbestos

          • Di wiggy

            I am also a resident of Lansbury park born and bred I’m also a full time student and believe it or not both myself and my husband work to bring our children up and both my parents worked too I was brought up to have respect for others less fortunate than myself unfortunately not all people are fortunate enough to be raised with golden spoons in their mouths like you obviously did don’t quite understand why people such as yourself are so negative there are some lovely hard working families in the Lansbury park area

          • Dean Cooperfield-West

            Fantastic! You are working to bring up your children with your partner. there is nothing wrong with that. It is irrelevant to the debate. So is the point about respect.

            The debate is about the need for a community centre and the need for schooling to allow greater social mobility. Once you have graduated with your degree you will have more access to jobs, a higher pay package, and the ability to fund the community centre yourself; or contribute towards it.

            Why should taxpayers fund the community centre? This is my issue. Taxpayers should not fund the community centre, the people of Lansbury Park should all chip in. The second part of my argument is the need for a community centre. If a community centre was needed or was demanded the original one would have never entered the state it is in.

        • Trefor Bond

          No big society for you then Dean?.

  • Matt Black

    As a resident of Lansbury park, I see little or no community spirit. I do however see lots of drug and alcohol related incidents. The only community spirit I witness is being sold from the 7-11 on Bedwas Road. As for the statement nice people, they do exist here, but mostly they keep to themselves and get out as soon as they can.
    In my opinion it’s not just the community centre that should be bulldozed, it’s the whole estate. I asked a long term Lansbury Park resident home owner if he would buy the house he lives in now….The answer was a resounding NO! and he wishes he had sold it 10yrs ago. Says it all really.

    • https://www.facebook.com/CaerphillyLocalHistory CLARE MASTERS

      No community spirit you say,you must be walking around with your eyes closed and please we do not want your negative opinion as it do not matter and no doubt Matt you spend most of your time in the 7-11 WE WILL GET WHAT WE WANT AND HAVE LOTS OF FUN DOING IT

  • Matt Black

    As a resident of Lansbury park, I see little or no community spirit. I do however see lots of drug and alcohol related incidents. The only community spirit I witness is being sold from the 7-11 on Bedwas Road. As for the statement nice people, they do exist here, but mostly they keep to themselves and get out as soon as they can.
    In my opinion it’s not just the community centre that should be bulldozed, it’s the whole estate. I asked a long term Lansbury Park resident home owner if he would buy the house he lives in now….The answer was a resounding NO! and he wishes he had sold it 10yrs ago. Says it all really.

    • https://www.facebook.com/CaerphillyLocalHistory CLARE MASTERS

      No community spirit you say,you must be walking around with your eyes closed and please we do not want your negative opinion as it do not matter and no doubt Matt you spend most of your time in the 7-11 WE WILL GET WHAT WE WANT AND HAVE LOTS OF FUN DOING IT

  • Phillip Holloway

    There is a lot of negativity on here at the moment. What we need to do is think if I found myself in this position what would i want expect or need. Many people on Lansbury park find themselves in this position through no fault of there own. Sometimes just where you live disadvantages you. For example I am 55 years old ex forces always worked since leaving school had an accident at work 3 years ago and cannot work. My partner has worked all her life and is now ill and unable to work. We find ourselfs living on Lansbury park and it is not as bad as everyone thinks. We have lived here for 7 months now and there are many places I have lived where people dont talk to you. You cannot walk down the road without someone from the estate talking to you,.
    In the areas where they are not dissadvantaged by the stigma of the area how do you think the local facilities are funded play areas halls community centers childrens groups ect ect. All the people on Lansbury park deserve the same as everyone else. Just think it could be you so please don’t judge what you don’t know or understand because you may begin to sound like an MP who has always lived the good life and never had to struggle.
    So if we were on an estate that was in a better area would we still be in the position where we have to take action to get action ??????
    Remember there but for the grace of God ????
    And as for some of the other problems ie drugs posh private estates around Caerphilly have the same problem but because of the stigma with Lansbury park mud sticks. People need to think about what they say.

    • Matt Black

      I have lived on Lansbury Park for five years now, yes there are people who want to live normal, peaceful, law abiding lives on this estate. But there is also a vast amount that spend their days drinking, taking drugs dealing drugs and generally being anti social.
      I.E Riding quad bikes and motor bikes on the pavements, using flat community areas as a toilet, being accosted by someone because they think you have drugs on you because there is a druggie in the complex you happen to live in. A neighbour assisting an offender to try and break in to your flat. A constant odour of skunk outside your flat. All this and more has happened on my street and continues. All has been reported to the relevant people and all that happens is those that report it get targeted and harassed by personal abuse or damage to personal property like cars.
      These types are by far more prevalent than those of which you speak.

  • Phillip Holloway

    There is a lot of negativity on here at the moment. What we need to do is think if I found myself in this position what would i want expect or need. Many people on Lansbury park find themselves in this position through no fault of there own. Sometimes just where you live disadvantages you. For example I am 55 years old ex forces always worked since leaving school had an accident at work 3 years ago and cannot work. My partner has worked all her life and is now ill and unable to work. We find ourselfs living on Lansbury park and it is not as bad as everyone thinks. We have lived here for 7 months now and there are many places I have lived where people dont talk to you. You cannot walk down the road without someone from the estate talking to you,.
    In the areas where they are not dissadvantaged by the stigma of the area how do you think the local facilities are funded play areas halls community centers childrens groups ect ect. All the people on Lansbury park deserve the same as everyone else. Just think it could be you so please don’t judge what you don’t know or understand because you may begin to sound like an MP who has always lived the good life and never had to struggle.
    So if we were on an estate that was in a better area would we still be in the position where we have to take action to get action ??????
    Remember there but for the grace of God ????
    And as for some of the other problems ie drugs posh private estates around Caerphilly have the same problem but because of the stigma with Lansbury park mud sticks. People need to think about what they say.

    • Matt Black

      I have lived on Lansbury Park for five years now, yes there are people who want to live normal, peaceful, law abiding lives on this estate. But there is also a vast amount that spend their days drinking, taking drugs dealing drugs and generally being anti social.
      I.E Riding quad bikes and motor bikes on the pavements, using flat community areas as a toilet, being accosted by someone because they think you have drugs on you because there is a druggie in the complex you happen to live in. A neighbour assisting an offender to try and break in to your flat. A constant odour of skunk outside your flat. All this and more has happened on my street and continues. All has been reported to the relevant people and all that happens is those that report it get targeted and harassed by personal abuse or damage to personal property like cars.
      These types are by far more prevalent than those of which you speak.

  • Elaine Forehead

    I’m very shocked that mr Cooperfield West has not suggested it is turned into a workhouse! Clearly this kind of development does not fit into his idea of middle class suburbia.
    Let’s set the record straight, we are not asking the local authority to plough money into the running of this, we are asking them to make a council owned building fit for purpose rather than let it decay and become unsafe.
    As for community spirit being lacking in Lansbury Park, you could not be further from the truth! People have come together for one reason, to make things better.
    The people who have worked on this campaign have been mothers of young children, working parents, university students and retired people, all who live on the estate. A diverse range of people who are proud of their community.
    Maybe mr Cooperfield West should visit our next meeting to see this for himself, and hopefully none of his friends or relatives never fall on hard times as it is quite clear they would be judged by him.

    • Dean Cooperfield-West

      Elaine, please explain to me why this supposedly community-oriented community has allowed the community to enter such diabolical conditions in the first place? If the community centre was needed it would not have entered poor conditions in the first place. Money from the ratepayers should not be given to revive a centre which, in 5 years, will be in the same condition as it currently is in.

      You have contradicted yourself. Asking the council to renovate a council-owned building for community use is the same as asking the council to plough money into it. Buildings do not renovate themselves for free!

      Community centres are not needed in modern communities. Provided a centre is nearby (as I have previously stated there is one under 2 miles away), local communities are build by chats over the garden fences, inviting neighbours around for a cup of tea, and lending each other gardening equipment. Communities are not built around community centres.

      Falling on hard times? You are scraping the barrel for justifications of this outrageous campaign to use taxpayers’ money (we wouldn’t need the 3.9% increase if you didn’t campaign to sue money on a project that should be locally funded). When people fall on hard times there are measures in place through state welfare to support them. There is no correlation between community centres and people in difficult times.

  • Elaine Forehead

    I’m very shocked that mr Cooperfield West has not suggested it is turned into a workhouse! Clearly this kind of development does not fit into his idea of middle class suburbia.
    Let’s set the record straight, we are not asking the local authority to plough money into the running of this, we are asking them to make a council owned building fit for purpose rather than let it decay and become unsafe.
    As for community spirit being lacking in Lansbury Park, you could not be further from the truth! People have come together for one reason, to make things better.
    The people who have worked on this campaign have been mothers of young children, working parents, university students and retired people, all who live on the estate. A diverse range of people who are proud of their community.
    Maybe mr Cooperfield West should visit our next meeting to see this for himself, and hopefully none of his friends or relatives never fall on hard times as it is quite clear they would be judged by him.

    • Dean Cooperfield-West

      Elaine, please explain to me why this supposedly community-oriented community has allowed the community centre to enter such diabolical conditions in the first place? If the community centre was needed it would not have entered poor conditions in the first place. Money from the ratepayers should not be given to revive a centre which, in 5 years, will be in the same condition as it currently is in.

      You have contradicted yourself. Asking the council to renovate a council-owned building for community use is the same as asking the council to plough money into it. Buildings do not renovate themselves for free!

      Community centres are not needed in modern communities. Provided a centre is nearby (as I have previously stated there is one under 2 miles away), local communities are built by chats over the garden fences, inviting neighbours around for a cup of tea, and lending each other gardening equipment. Communities are not built around community centres.

      Falling on hard times? You are scraping the barrel for justifications of this outrageous campaign to use taxpayers’ money (we wouldn’t need the 3.9% increase if you didn’t campaign to sue money on a project that should be locally funded). When people fall on hard times there are measures in place through state welfare to support them. There is no correlation between community centres and people in difficult times. Community centres do not help people in difficult times.

      There must be more ambition! Let the people of Lansbury Park know they can achieve anything provided they put their mind to it! At the moment your current doctrine seems to be about improving the trimmings while ignoring the big issue. The big issue being an investigation as to why Lansbury Park has high levels of poverty.

      My answer is a lack of schooling for many residents there, and a lack of encouragement for the people growing up there. A community centre is not going to solve all of the problems, but a campaign to get people into school, to get people into learning new skills or a trade, and a campaign to convince people in Lansbury Park they could be the Prime Minister if they wanted to will work.

      Successive Labour governments in Cardiff Bay whose vision has been one of reverse inequality and artificial wealth inflation has led to Lansbury park being as deprived as it is.

  • https://www.facebook.com/CaerphillyLocalHistory CLARE MASTERS

    Come share your opinion Dean Copperfield-West next meeting Monday morning

  • https://www.facebook.com/CaerphillyLocalHistory CLARE MASTERS

    Come share your opinion Dean Copperfield-West next meeting Monday morning

  • mojo

    I wonder if Dean has ever heard the saying “there but for the grace of
    God go I”. I moved to lansbury 4years ago.. I had my own business and house and lost it all due to the recession.So while you sit there with a smug look on you face you never know what life will throw at you.fyi we are a working household and have been since we left school with very good gcse’s..idiot…

  • mojo

    I wonder if Dean has ever heard the saying “there but for the grace of
    God go I”. I moved to lansbury 4years ago.. I had my own business and house and lost it all due to the recession.So while you sit there with a smug look on you face you never know what life will throw at you.fyi we are a working household and have been since we left school with very good gcse’s..idiot…

  • Edward

    The fact that some residents within the Lansbury Park estate
    are passionate about the refurbishment and renovation of the community centre should be applauded not discouraged. Positive change can grow from small roots. I say good luck to you.

    However, key questions need to be addressed. If such a strong community spirit exists, why did the community centre fall into such a state of disrepair and become disused? Who is to blame for this, the residents, the council or both sides? If money is invested, what assurances are there that the same will not happen again? The problems that have existed, have they been resolved or do they still exist? If change is going to work, there must be commitment on both sides otherwise there will be no return on the investment in terms of social, economic or financial benefit.

    Some residents claim there is good community spirit. Strangely, Diane Wiegold states there is no community any more. Another resident claims they don’t get any support and I am assuming from the council. Why is this? Why is Lansbury Park overlooked?

    Before you bemoan the lack of facilities in Lansbury Park, the council want to develop a further 12,000 homes within the Caerphilly basin by 2030. Think what this will do to Caerphilly. Additional congestion on Caerphilly roads already at capacity; overburden on schools, public services, sewage and drainage. The list is endless. The council are responsible for desecrating
    communities and then claim to support us. Unfortunately, you can only trust
    yourselves. Good luck.

  • Edward

    The fact that some residents within the Lansbury Park estate
    are passionate about the refurbishment and renovation of the community centre should be applauded not discouraged. Positive change can grow from small roots. I say good luck to you.

    However, key questions need to be addressed. If such a strong community spirit exists, why did the community centre fall into such a state of disrepair and become disused? Who is to blame for this, the residents, the council or both sides? If money is invested, what assurances are there that the same will not happen again? The problems that have existed, have they been resolved or do they still exist? If change is going to work, there must be commitment on both sides otherwise there will be no return on the investment in terms of social, economic or financial benefit.

    Some residents claim there is good community spirit. Strangely, Diane Wiegold states there is no community any more. Another resident claims they don’t get any support and I am assuming from the council. Why is this? Why is Lansbury Park overlooked?

    Before you bemoan the lack of facilities in Lansbury Park, the council want to develop a further 12,000 homes within the Caerphilly basin by 2030. Think what this will do to Caerphilly. Additional congestion on Caerphilly roads already at capacity; overburden on schools, public services, sewage and drainage. The list is endless. The council are responsible for desecrating
    communities and then claim to support us. Unfortunately, you can only trust
    yourselves. Good luck.

  • upwards

    Dean if your so passionate about your opinion on Lansbury’s community centre and the demographics of the estate then share it at the next meeting. Have your opinion as everyone is entitled by virtue of freedom of expression; however in my humble opinion your opinion is very much idiosyncratic, conservative and capitalist and furthermore your clearly not as intellectual as you allude. Lansbury Park community Centre was shut down due to reasons beyond the residents control and if you came from a disadvantaged background you would understand that you can sometimes feel the pressure of CLASS suppression which is toxic to any human beings ability to feel empowered to aspire. In lay-man’s for your understanding my friend, example; authorities (((big and powerful))) v’s the people (((with little or no self esteem))) to envisage that they could be capable of a ((massive)) campaign to get this centre re-open. But there’s always a radical somewhere! 😉 apologies regarding the grammatical errors but ((F))ORTUNATE for me I come from a disadvantaged background to bhhaaattttt!! 😉 well done girls!! what your doing is amazing!! Dean seems off his nut anyway 😀

    • Dean Cooperfield-West

      Aneurin Bevan, the son of a coal miner, worked his socks off at school despite a lack of encouragement, winning a scholarship to the Central Labour College. David Morrissey is the son of a shoe-repair man, he left school early but managed to make it into the Royal School of Dramatic Art. Stephen King was abandoned by his parents when he was 2 years old but realised he excelled at English, he is now worth over $200m and has written numerous books. J.K. Rowling lived off benefits when she penned the first Harry Potter novel but look how she has turned out. All of these people and many more succeeded despite any class suppression that may or may not exist.

      I truly believe there is a child in Lansbury Park who is capable of drawing up a solution to the UK’s struggling NHS, or a child with an idea for a book series to rival Harry Potter. However, these children will not see success unless they are pushed and encouraged by their school, and their parents. It is a sorry state of affairs when teachers regularly encourage children to take easier GCSEs or to take foundation courses. All children should be pushed, pushed, and pushed even more.

      Blaming class suppression for poverty instead of pushing people to break this debatable barrier is like buying a lottery ticket on Monday, resigning yourself to defeat that evening, and throwing it away on the Tuesday without checking the numbers during Wednesday’s draw first. It is unlikely you will win the lottery but there is a possibility you might. Throwing the ticket away guarantees you will not win. Similarly, trying to better yourself despite all odds may work, whereas accepting your situation and feeling sorry for yourself while sometimes looking for someone to blame will not work.

      This community centre will not improve social mobility, it will not decrease poverty, all it will do is be a short-term, costly boost to morale to a small group of people in Lansbury Park. Social mobility stems from better education; not more public spending on community centres.

      My view is capitalist but socialism has not exactly been a success in the past. For example, the poorest region of Europe is Eastern Europe. It just so happens Eastern Europe was once a socialist powerhouse. Contrastingly, one of the richest parts of the world is Singapore; a capitalist powerhouse.

      • Cllr Richard Williams

        Going into the global dichotomy between socialism and capitalism is all very interesting but I think the debate is wandering a bit here. There are people in Lansbury Park that want a hall, good idea and a worthwhile project for the reasons I have given in earlier posts.

        Now some facts; there is a hall there now that needs renovation, this hall is owned by the council. There seems to be support from within the community for putting this hall back into use. The council is broke so there will be little financial help from that quarter unless the community can present a good case for public money to be spent.

        My view is that the people of Lansbury should get together and make this case, offer their skills, raise their own funds, demonstrate hard work and committment in return for a grant from the council to help financially. I am sure that a Labour council would be only too willing to assist a project that can demonstrate longevity and many future years of benefit to the people of the estate.

        This has already been done – Neuadd Y Parc, normally known as the OAP Hall in the town was built by a committee and after 62 years still provides a facility within the town for various activities and a venue for the pensioners to meet every week free of charge. It does not cost the council tax payer a single penny. Good luck to the forward looking people of Lansbury, I hope you can get this hall put back into community use.

        • Dean Cooperfield-West

          I have a better idea. If the people of Lansbury Park are insistent on this hall they can group together to form a management company whose task it is to renovate the hall without using public money, including grants.

          Commercial finance to be paid back, private donations, and commercial partnerships will help fund the hall. Depending on the frequency of use it is a feasible project to finance privately. For example,

          £15 per hour for the hall, but £17 per hour for the hall with all facilities in the centre. If the hall can be rented out to old age clubs, coffee mornings, parties, corporate meetings, get togethers, and classes for an average of 5 hours per day on the weekdays and Saturday with 3 hours on Sunday, (this is a very conservative estimate using figures based on the Trecenydd community centre), that gives over £29,000 revenue per year. At Christmas and the school holidays the usage will be increased so overall it should not be hard to generate £35,000 per year.

          On top of this the delivery company can also start a subsidiary which rents out the hall every weekday morning to use a local cafe. The cafe business could easily turnover £30-40k (below average for small UK cafes) making a net profit of x amount.

          When the two revenue streams have been added there will be enough revenue to pay back borrowed money, and start making a net profit on the centre within 5 years provided the centre is frequently sued. The profits can then be pumped into local community projects boosting the welfare of the community even more. Although, the profits could just go into the pockets of the people who have the drive to start this company.

          BE ENTREPRENEURIAL!

          • Cllr Richard Williams

            Sounds good Dean but the reality is that you are dealing with the council, who own the building. In my experience the council, or more commonly council officers, are not the easiest people to deal with. They have their own, laid down, parameters to work with and any deals must fit within these parameters.

            The scenario you depict may just work but I think it more likely that a demonstration of intent, backed by some council grants, is more likely to succeed than a private company set up by the residents. I am not arguing that this may not be the best and most efficient course of action but that we need to take into account the reality of the situation.

            I still think that a local organisation who have a clear objective, have raised funds, who can demonstrate skills and have a business plan, can get the council’s permission to use the hall and obtain some funding to set the project in motion. Once all the legalities such as lease to the community, etc are sorted there is no reason why this hall should not be self financing.

  • upwards

    Dean if your so passionate about your opinion on Lansbury’s community centre and the demographics of the estate then share it at the next meeting. Have your opinion as everyone is entitled by virtue of freedom of expression; however in my humble opinion your opinion is very much idiosyncratic, conservative and capitalist and furthermore your clearly not as intellectual as you allude. Lansbury Park community Centre was shut down due to reasons beyond the residents control and if you came from a disadvantaged background you would understand that you can sometimes feel the pressure of CLASS suppression which is toxic to any human beings ability to feel empowered to aspire. In lay-man’s for your understanding my friend, example; authorities (((big and powerful))) v’s the people (((with little or no self esteem))) to envisage that they could be capable of a ((massive)) campaign to get this centre re-open. But there’s always a radical somewhere! 😉 apologies regarding the grammatical errors but ((F))ORTUNATE for me I come from a disadvantaged background to bhhaaattttt!! 😉 well done girls!! what your doing is amazing!! Dean seems off his nut anyway 😀

    • Dean Cooperfield-West

      Aneurin Bevan, the son of a coal miner, worked his socks off at school despite a lack of encouragement, winning a scholarship to the Central Labour College. David Morrissey is the son of a shoe-repair man, he left school early but managed to make it into the Royal School of Dramatic Art. Stephen King was abandoned by his parents when he was 2 years old but realised he excelled at English, he is now worth over $200m and has written numerous books. J.K. Rowling lived off benefits when she penned the first Harry Potter novel but look how she has turned out. All of these people and many more succeeded despite any class suppression that may or may not exist.

      I truly believe there is a child in Lansbury Park who is capable of drawing up a solution to the UK’s struggling NHS, or a child with an idea for a book series to rival Harry Potter. However, these children will not see success unless they are pushed and encouraged by their school, and their parents. It is a sorry state of affairs when teachers regularly encourage children to take easier GCSEs or to take foundation courses. All children should be pushed, pushed, and pushed even more.

      Blaming class suppression for poverty instead of pushing people to break this debatable barrier is like buying a lottery ticket on Monday, resigning yourself to defeat that evening, and throwing it away on the Tuesday without checking the numbers during Wednesday’s draw first. It is unlikely you will win the lottery but there is a possibility you might. Throwing the ticket away guarantees you will not win. Similarly, trying to better yourself despite all odds may work, whereas accepting your situation and feeling sorry for yourself while sometimes looking for someone to blame will not work.

      This community centre will not improve social mobility, it will not decrease poverty, all it will do is be a short-term, costly boost to morale to a small group of people in Lansbury Park. Social mobility stems from better education; not more public spending on community centres.

      My view is capitalist but socialism has not exactly been a success in the past. For example, the poorest region of Europe is Eastern Europe. It just so happens Eastern Europe was once a socialist powerhouse. Contrastingly, one of the richest parts of the world is Singapore; a capitalist powerhouse.

      • Cllr Richard Williams

        Going into the global dichotomy between socialism and capitalism is all very interesting but I think the debate is wandering a bit here. There are people in Lansbury Park that want a hall, good idea and a worthwhile project for the reasons I have given in earlier posts.

        Now some facts; there is a hall there now that needs renovation, this hall is owned by the council. There seems to be support from within the community for putting this hall back into use. The council is broke so there will be little financial help from that quarter unless the community can present a good case for public money to be spent.

        My view is that the people of Lansbury should get together and make this case, offer their skills, raise their own funds, demonstrate hard work and committment in return for a grant from the council to help financially. I am sure that a Labour council would be only too willing to assist a project that can demonstrate longevity and many future years of benefit to the people of the estate.

        This has already been done – Neuadd Y Parc, normally known as the OAP Hall in the town was built by a committee and after 62 years still provides a facility within the town for various activities and a venue for the pensioners to meet every week free of charge. It does not cost the council tax payer a single penny. Good luck to the forward looking people of Lansbury, I hope you can get this hall put back into community use.

        • Dean Cooperfield-West

          I have a better idea. If the people of Lansbury Park are insistent on this hall they can group together to form a management company whose task it is to renovate the hall without using public money, including grants.

          Commercial finance to be paid back, private donations, and commercial partnerships will help fund the hall. Depending on the frequency of use it is a feasible project to finance privately. For example,

          £15 per hour for the hall, but £17 per hour for the hall with all facilities in the centre. If the hall can be rented out to old age clubs, coffee mornings, parties, corporate meetings, get togethers, and classes for an average of 5 hours per day on the weekdays and Saturday with 3 hours on Sunday, (this is a very conservative estimate using figures based on the Trecenydd community centre), that gives over £29,000 revenue per year. At Christmas and the school holidays the usage will be increased so overall it should not be hard to generate £35,000 per year.

          On top of this the delivery company can also start a subsidiary which rents out the hall every weekday morning to use a local cafe. The cafe business could easily turnover £30-40k (below average for small UK cafes) making a net profit of x amount.

          When the two revenue streams have been added there will be enough revenue to pay back borrowed money, and start making a net profit on the centre within 5 years provided the centre is frequently used. The profits can then be pumped into local community projects boosting the welfare of the community even more. Although, the profits could just go into the pockets of the people who have the drive to start this company.

          BE ENTREPRENEURIAL!

          • Cllr Richard Williams

            Sounds good Dean but the reality is that you are dealing with the council, who own the building. In my experience the council, or more commonly council officers, are not the easiest people to deal with. They have their own, laid down, parameters to work with and any deals must fit within these parameters.

            The scenario you depict may just work but I think it more likely that a demonstration of intent, backed by some council grants, is more likely to succeed than a private company set up by the residents. I am not arguing that this may not be the best and most efficient course of action but that we need to take into account the reality of the situation.

            I still think that a local organisation who have a clear objective, have raised funds, who can demonstrate skills and have a business plan, can get the council’s permission to use the hall and obtain some funding to set the project in motion. Once all the legalities such as lease to the community, etc are sorted there is no reason why this hall should not be self financing.